13 replies to this topic

[Visentinel]

I'm going to have to go with the Anti-Vista group. Those system requirements are outrageous even if there are shiney skins and features. The DRM thing is another big thing for me. It's been reported just about everywhere that Vista is being shipped with lockouts that prevent you from watching High Def material if your screen is deemed "insecure", which is pretty much 95% of current screens. Link here:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...tid=196&tid=190

If that isn't enough, Microsoft has also announced that it's been working with organisations like the RIAA and MPAA to stop users from being able to playback anything that might be illegal, so if Vista doesn't think your setup is secure enough, it won't allow you to run playback. Link here:

http://news.com.com/Hollywood%2C+Microsoft...l?tag=nefd.lede

Further still, Vista may force OpenGL to be rendered via Direct3D, which basically means that it's going to perform like a dog and is just plain monopolistic and anti-competitive of Microsoft. Link here:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/0...tid=109&tid=152

I used to think that the Microsoft bashers took things way too far, XP had been out years and all this nonsense about closing users off hadn't occured and stampeding out with formats only Windows could run, but now I'm thinking they were mostly right about alot of things.

[ShadowFox]

I thought the same thing Visentinel, but it looks like if this stuff is true I'm Anti-Vista aswell.

[Visentinel]

Im very dissapointed about MS's intention of destroying the OpenGL graphics system, that is like the final nail in the coffin.

[Neon]

They have dug a hole for themselves, they need now to do something to rescue this OS, Longhorn lost more and more features and now it seems even the fundemental parts are being altered, not like we need some parts but it just makes the whole thing not worth using or to expensive to get, why should i alter my whole compute, i have different themes, windowsblinds are making a DWM feature for XP, WinFS beta is now out there...so what can Vista offer?

I only hope Bill Gates hears of the mess he is making here...

[ShadowFox]

He won't care even if he does hear it. He just wants to make his OS monopolize the whole world and he just effed that one up hard core. I hope he changes his mind because looking at the specs you need to even run Vista i think you should be paid to freakin run it. But in all due reality when it all comes down to it we will be paying big bucks to get to where we can use it then fork out a crap load more money just so we can have the latest and greatest. You just caused your downfall Bill... ShadowWare Industries is in it's prime, time for me to over throw this power hungry looser.

[Visentinel]

I have more information about the OpenGL issue here

http://www.visentinel.com

Edited by Visentinel, 13 September 2005 - 11:31 AM.

[tntoak]

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It's been reported just about everywhere that Vista is being shipped with lockouts that prevent you from watching High Def material if your screen is deemed "insecure", which is pretty much 95% of current screens.

That report is inaccurate. What is really happening is that if you are trying to play HD content on a monitor that does not support HD, the OS will scale the resolution down to match the monitor. There is no DRM lockout, contrary to the reports.

I would also add that since we haven't even seen the first RC build of Vista, it's really hard for anyone to claim for sure what it will and will not contain. When Longhorn was first announced, we heard about WinFS, Avalon, & Indigo. Now WinFS probably won't see the light of day until 2007, and Indigo and Avalon are standalone products.

[RedInferno]

KW13, on Sep 12 2005, 05:11 AM, said:

They have dug a hole for themselves, they need now to do something to rescue this OS, Longhorn lost more and more features and now it seems even the fundemental parts are being altered, not like we need some parts but it just makes the whole thing not worth using or to expensive to get, why should i alter my whole compute, i have different themes, windowsblinds are making a DWM feature for XP, WinFS beta is now out there...so what can Vista offer?

I only hope Bill Gates hears of the mess he is making here...

Really. OpenGL is one of the BACKBONEs of 3d graphics.

[Blackice]

what you are talking about is PVP (Protected Video Path). Basically, it doesn't scale things down if you don't have an HD-enabled monitor (or it might, but that's not its prupose). Its purpose is to provide a mechanism with which movie distributors can be sure that a video played is going to a monitor, rather than a recording device. But it is misreported: this thing ONLY AFFECTS MOVIES WITH DRM (and may be limimted further to movies only with OPM). It isn't something Microsoft is doing to rip you off: its something hollywood is doing to protect their intellectual property. Microsoft are doing a good thing by putting support for this into the OS - you wouldn't be happy if you got a movie with OPM on it (thanks, hollywood), and it wouldn't run on vista because the OS had no support for OPM. Microsoft are adding support for another copyright protection scheme - not locking down the OS or whatever you might have read. In fact, you should all be hapy that OPM will give you a worse experience if you don't have an OPM monitor - its better than NO experience, right?

Microsoft aren't ripping you all off, they're providing you all an OS that will allow you to do hatever you want to. I hope you can see that Microsoft are bringing down barriers to help you get the best possible experience out of your legally-purchased material.

Also, to the original poster: you post an article about PVP to give evidence for possible illegal content being played. this is false. If you have a file on your hard drive, Windows does not know whether or not it is legal, and cannot block you playing such content. Microsoft are not, as you would imply, thinking about what happens to the data once it is on your PC - they are looking at what means you have to get illegal stuff on there, and making sure that that is hard. Of course, many people who like to rip-off hard working artists, producers, editors &c. will not like this, but they are the criminals: why cater to meet their needs?

However you must understand that these initiatives do not originate from Microsoft: they originate from the content providers. If Windows is too insecure, these providers one day will think "sod this. I'm going ahead with these new protection formats, and if Microsoft doesn't want to support them, let apple do it and be more compatible." Microsoft are including these things in order to be compatible with what content providers demand - ensuring that when you get a legal file, whatever it may be, you can use it with Windows, and not have to worry about all of this.

PVP does slightly contradict this, but Microsoft are simply addding the system in there - its up to Hollywood to decide to use it. This does not affect the rest of the OS - its like putting a gun in your cupboard and gettting burgled - its up to you to make the decision whether or not you want to pull out the gun. Strange analogy, but hopefully you understand now.

[Nvyseal]

Right on Blackice - How can you use a beta for a compairson

[RedInferno]

You do have some good points blackice...made me think..thnx.

[Neon]

I still think wait and see, after seeing 5231 i was impressed by its performance overall for a Beta...lets hope come RC1 it REALLY is super cos a long line of people will be waiting to slap bill gates

Just imagine a queue of people each slappin his head LOL

[Blackice]

KW13, on Sep 12 2005, 11:11 AM, said:

They have dug a hole for themselves, they need now to do something to rescue this OS, Longhorn lost more and more features and now it seems even the fundemental parts are being altered, not like we need some parts but it just makes the whole thing not worth using or to expensive to get, why should i alter my whole compute, i have different themes, windowsblinds are making a DWM feature for XP, WinFS beta is now out there...so what can Vista offer?

I only hope Bill Gates hears of the mess he is making here...

What features has longhorn lost? The only thing that is being left out is a completley managed OS (as in, handled by the CLR), and this wasn't explicitly stated - WinFX as a managed API is still a massive leap forward. WinFS is dealyed (NOT cancelled), and its use in XP is still unsure. Beta1 worked on XP, but the developers said on Channel9 that it was still up in the air. Also, WindowBlinds is NOT making anything like DWM for XP. They allow us to use 24-bit PNGs in places we wouldn't be able to otherwise. DWM also handles windows in a different way - thinking of them as textured surfaces (and since they are rendered with DirectX, they can be manipulated in 3D). This also allows pixel shaders to be used (notice Windowblinds does not offer background blurring or extended window frames like WMP11, nor does it allow you to tint the colour of a certain control, as in IE7. Remeber that the expereience, Aero, has yet to be unveiled (and from some of the early ideas I heard being tossed around a few years ago, Vista will really revolutionise the PC).


vista is also going to be the target platform for all windows software after its release, and eventually, XP won't run most applications. Vista also includes many more utilites (like Windows Calendar, although there are many, many more) you would expect to see from your OS. It also optimises its performance over time, to not have your PC degrade its performance (which seems to happen, no matter what). Also, the System Assesment Tool is oging to make gaming a whole lot better. That, together with the security offered by Palladium and UAP, the new audio stack and networking stack (and mapping features), together with the many, many more features in longhorn (which are too many to list) are what say you should switch.

For one aero concept: you know that aurora thing? imagine if it was a Windows Media Player visualisation. OK, woohoo, it dances and changes colour to the music. nice. Now, imagine that's your wallpaper, all being rendered by a fast, vector-based platform, and extends to many other parts of the shell - the preview panes, the start menu,the windows &c. Imagine them all with aurora-like spikes dancing to your music - now THAT'S impressive. On top of that, the visal cues given by glass and aero are allowing you to easily switch between tasks in 3D, giving you a consistent and clear UI, and making everything available where you want it, and fast and pleasing to use.

Oh, and its truley multithreaded - meaning your PC is more responsive and is using its full potential, so all of these effects are going on whilst your PC even seems faster than it was with XP (having the graphics dumped onto the GPU helps, too).

Vista is going to rock.

[m.oreilly]

Quote

Vista is going to rock

i quite agree