14 replies to this topic

[banj0]

IMHO, what a pointless and futile move. I can't wait to wake up tomorrow and see gas prices raised as a direct result of the cut--and I'd be willing to bet that the increase in gas prices will more than make up for the cut.

I know that a vast majority of us will feel a bit of breathing room on debt, but what is this going to accomplish in the long run? Maybe, maybe, maybe, we'll see a small increase in consumer spending but how in the world will that get us on track? And this isn't '91---if anything, consumer spending will be lower than it was then.

Isn't there some way that the Fed. Reserve could be forced into changing its name so that people don't equate it with a government agency? I'm not advocating going back to the gold/silver standard because, to be honest, I'm just not learned enough to make an argument either way. But for cryin' out sideways, if the U.S. dollar gets any weaker we are all (us Yanks) in for some serious trouble. We will never compete our way out of this until we move to higher fuel standards and/or alternative fuels---without throwing OPEC under the bus, and the people of whom make up those countries, is there any other way to make the cut beneficial without seeing the trickle down at the pumps?

In the immediate though, we're essentially just printing more money. Again, I'm no economist, but isn't this just a band-aid when we need stitches?

Rant over, and I do have an open mind. Am I missing something here?

[Camaro]

I try not to follow this too closely as I would get into a rant about it very quickly as well, but one thing I see our dollar got weaker, and getting more so, as a direct reaction to the iraq war.

[BlueScreenOfDeath]

banj0, on Jan 23 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

IMHO, what a pointless and futile move. I can't wait to wake up tomorrow and see gas prices raised as a direct result of the cut--and I'd be willing to bet that the increase in gas prices will more than make up for the cut.

I know that a vast majority of us will feel a bit of breathing room on debt, but what is this going to accomplish in the long run? Maybe, maybe, maybe, we'll see a small increase in consumer spending but how in the world will that get us on track? And this isn't '91---if anything, consumer spending will be lower than it was then.

Isn't there some way that the Fed. Reserve could be forced into changing its name so that people don't equate it with a government agency? I'm not advocating going back to the gold/silver standard because, to be honest, I'm just not learned enough to make an argument either way. But for cryin' out sideways, if the U.S. dollar gets any weaker we are all (us Yanks) in for some serious trouble. We will never compete our way out of this until we move to higher fuel standards and/or alternative fuels---without throwing OPEC under the bus, and the people of whom make up those countries, is there any other way to make the cut beneficial without seeing the trickle down at the pumps?

In the immediate though, we're essentially just printing more money. Again, I'm no economist, but isn't this just a band-aid when we need stitches?

Rant over, and I do have an open mind. Am I missing something here?

First you cant really blame the fuel problems on our slumping dollar and our bottoming out economy. Our problem here is too many people bought houses and things they couldn't afford so what happens? they default.. So many people got into the trend of flipping houses and now the houses you use to get a deal on...are way out the normal price range. The housing market and the fact that so many of our jobs went flying out of the country does not help. Imagine all the IT jobs which could be balloning on our economy ...but we outsource them and let some india based firm or china based firm do it for 75% of the cost. The only reason why people want to find better fuel alternatives is because they are afraid of paying 3.25 and Up for gas. Well lemme tell ya, the infrastructure to put in Hydrogen fuel cells and to produce ethanol, dont seem like viable solutions to the fuel makers because what happens when u go hydrogen fuel cell , you have to put in the technology to charge them up, you have to slow phase out all gas based cars.. pass laws..etc before we are NON dependant on Crude oil....ethanol is a good idea but i can see that system being abused because you make an abundance of corn to have it turned into fuel what happens when people sell it to gas makers and corn as a food goes up.

We can blame a bunch of things for our economy's hardships at this point but to be honest... things will only get more expensive, cost of living will continue to rise and then we WILL have a Economic Depression... A recession in the bigger scheme of things...isnt bad..it balances things back again and i think we are LONG over do for one.

[Christopholofigus]

Kinda related to our decadence, have a read here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/magazine...p;ex=1270267200

I try so hard to not think of the downward spiral that our wonderful America is going (and i start to rant and climb up on my soap box), but consider this link and agreement with everyone thus far. Oh, on the corn issue, corn is also used to feed all the animals too, so there goes beef, pork, etc...

//**********Edited**********
And isn't it interesting that the article was posted in 2005...wonder what the outlook is now?

Edited by Christopholofigus, 23 January 2008 - 10:13 PM.

[Camaro]

while most of that is true, his attitude and demeanor suggest a xenophobic person. not sure if that is the image we want either.

[talker]

This interest rate cut was what the banks charge each other for short term money bank to bank. This cut will affect consumers indirectly more than directly. And as I wrote both Alabama Senators (for all the good it does), I am in NO WAY in favor of ANY economic stimulus package that increases the deficit, better know as the National Debt. One does not borrow money or go deeper in debt to pay off debt. A prime example is when you buy a house. They want to see that you have the downpayment and that it is not borrowed. A borrowed downpayment would increase the amount of payback on the house and possibly bankrupt the borrower. The best "stimulus" package is to keep spending what we consumers can but don't borrow anything and if you don't buy, pay off instead of merely spend. How much usable income you have is not so much determined by what you make but by what you owe. Lets say that you make $10.00 and hour and work 40 hours a week X 4 weeks ($10.00 X 160= $1,600.00 gross income). Now add up all that you pay out each month and divide by 160. Rent/House note $525, Utilities $150.00, Car Note $250.00, Credit Cards $150.00, Misc Charge Accounts $100.00. This totals to $1,176.00 divided by 160 = $7.35. That is the amount per hour that you have to give to just pay bills from the $10.00 an hour that you earn. That means you have $2.65 per hour for groceries, gasoline, clothes, medicine, savings, taxes, and everything else. In other words, you are supporting your family on $2.65 an hour. The $7.35 is supporting companies and people that could care less for you or your family. It is not what you make, it is what you owe that determines your usable income. Do this to your situation and see how much more you would have if you reduced your debt. This is called Bill's Rule of 160. Try it if you dare. The key is not to spend but to pay off. This applies whether you are an individual or a nation. With debt, there is always a price to pay by someone...with interest...talker.

[bluerip]

Allowing Euro bankers to call themselves the Federal Reserve and letting them print money with no backing of gold or silver or anything for that matter and allowing them to manipulate the markets the way they have done is a shame. It is pathetic. It is a real crime. It is a plan that has been in the works for sometime to undermind America and its people. Most of the problems we have today stem from allowing this "Federal (not)" Reserve to take place. It is discusting.

[banj0]

Well, well, well-----we're now seeing some action on this. Apparently there is one guy that has really thrown this whole thing for a loop and is making it really hard for the Reserve, the Executive, and anyone else to get any work done. You guys seen this? Link.

[banj0]

I now use my one "Get out of Jail Free" card and ask for forgiveness. Hate the game, not the player.

Just adding some levity.

In all seriousness, I hear what you guys are saying. Like I said, I have an open mind and won't pretend to understand economics at this level. It just seems that the timing on this is contrived. Honestly, I hope I'm wrong.

Thanks for the "160 rule" Talker, it makes one think.

Edited by banj0, 25 January 2008 - 07:56 AM.

[talker]

Hi Banj0,
No need for the "Get Out of Jail Card". This is a topic, while not overly pleasant, is still important and real. Many of our politician$ would prefer we hide our heads in the sand and "Let them handle this". That is what got us where we are along with the American attitude of "Charge it now, I'll pay it later." Well, later has arrived. Just because we live in America (which is good overall) no citizen is owed more than they earn. Today, many have earned backruptcy. It would have been just as easy (and wiser) to have shopped for a smaller, not tiny just smaller, house without the ARM. They could have stayed away from the gas funnell SUV (not to mention the auto insurance the bulky thing has to have). All this and other items like them are not "cutting back" or "sacrificing" it is just being realistic. Fiscal responsibility is up to the individual not the government. Why do we feel that if we get ourselves in trouble that the government is to bail us out. I don't want the government involved in my business affairs. We can see the Federal track record concerning finances. The Federal Deficit (National Debt) is $9,194,612,940,206.61 which works out to $30,227.81 for every man, woman, and child in the natiion. Also remember this quote from President Gerald Ford...

Any government that is big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything that you have.

That is a real statement and can be very true. The individual needs to care for their own home. If some belt tightening is needed, be honest enough to admit it and take steps for damage control. Sticking our heads in the sand will only allow the fiscal problems to run unchecked and soon, all will be lost.

If more forums allowed for this type of open discussion, we could all benefit and perhaps give each other hints, ideas, and experiences that could help...talker.

[TheBearLT]

banj0, on Jan 23 2008, 09:44 AM, said:

IMHO, what a pointless and futile move. I can't wait to wake up tomorrow and see gas prices raised as a direct result of the cut--and I'd be willing to bet that the increase in gas prices will more than make up for the cut.

I know that a vast majority of us will feel a bit of breathing room on debt, but what is this going to accomplish in the long run? Maybe, maybe, maybe, we'll see a small increase in consumer spending but how in the world will that get us on track? And this isn't '91---if anything, consumer spending will be lower than it was then.

Isn't there some way that the Fed. Reserve could be forced into changing its name so that people don't equate it with a government agency? I'm not advocating going back to the gold/silver standard because, to be honest, I'm just not learned enough to make an argument either way. But for cryin' out sideways, if the U.S. dollar gets any weaker we are all (us Yanks) in for some serious trouble. We will never compete our way out of this until we move to higher fuel standards and/or alternative fuels---without throwing OPEC under the bus, and the people of whom make up those countries, is there any other way to make the cut beneficial without seeing the trickle down at the pumps?

In the immediate though, we're essentially just printing more money. Again, I'm no economist, but isn't this just a band-aid when we need stitches?

Rant over, and I do have an open mind. Am I missing something here?

You should just Stop that Pointless war with Iraq.. Thats it.. you Draining your own Money into nothing, In all the Centuries everyone tried to Take their land, but that was pointless.. because so far they still living there
And overall, Iraqs Government was not guilty in Anything that Bush said..

Your todays President is like we had one King in the Past.. It was "Jaunutis", he almost destroyed our countries Economy.. the same happening with you.. Get rid of Bush, and everything again will be just fine.. like in Old good times, when "Dollar Had Price"..

Cheers ^^

Edited by TheBearLT, 26 January 2008 - 06:42 PM.

[Camaro]

TheBearLT, on Jan 26 2008, 07:49 AM, said:

You should just Stop that Pointless war with Iraq.. Thats it.. you Draining your own Money into nothing, In all the Centuries everyone tried to Take their land, but that was pointless.. because so far they still living there
And overall, Iraqs Government was not guilty in Anything that Bush said..

Your todays President is like we had one in the Past.. It was "Jaunutis", he almost destroyed our countries Economy.. the same happening with you.. Get rid of Bush, and everything again will be just fine.. like in Old good times, when "Dollar Had Price"..

Cheers ^^

Wow I am surprised to say this but I am in agreement with thebear.
The excuses that they would be in a civil war and all hell would break out if we pullout now are stupid, they can and will take care of it themselves, the problem as I see it is they would form a government that would not be partial to us, and I dont think that is nor should it be any of our concern. This is very much Vietnam all over again, the difference being there was nothing but jungle rot in Vietnam, Iraq has oil.

[bluerip]

but if you get rid of one puppet you will just get another puppet. good luck with that.

[banj0]

As the Federal Reserve is not a government agency, my post wasn't intended to be political. I guess it was inevitable that it may become so but Nvy and MO and Lino have been clear that they don't want political flaming on this site so, hopefully, this won't become vitriolic.

As it stands, I've got some crow to eat because the gas prices, at least in Detroit, only went up a penny or two per gallon. I'll gladly admit to being a poor prognosticator when it means that the gas bill hasn't gone into orbit.

I'm pessimistic but, hopefully, this isn't the fit hitting the shan that I originally thought.

[TheBearLT]

bluerip, on Jan 27 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

but if you get rid of one puppet you will just get another puppet. good luck with that.

At least the War will be stopped.. I guess..

We all clearly know that Basically president is a Bow, the Guy who "connects" with People.. But still, I'm pretty sure that with the Next president the war will be stopped, and Economy will be Restored.


For Banjo. Well, basically, like Albert Einstein said, Everything is Relative.
If you have High Gas prices, that means there is problems in Politics.. etc. you got my point